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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  July 22, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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deal, there's no deal, they meant it. >> they meant it. and the divide is significant. and we expect there will be more details coming about how this will all change very quickly with the weekend being so crucial. >> thank you kelly. again, president obama will be making a statement shortly. right now, al sharpton paks up our coverage. good evening. i'm al sharpton. we begin with breaking news. president obama is set to make a statement any moment. it comes after another day of rangeling over the debt limit talks. the president went out to college park maryland and spoke at an open town hall meeting. he's been bringing his case to the people on the other side, the republicans have been going back and forward. their bill went before the senate. it was defeated today. there's been rangeling all over capitol hill. but, we understand that speaker
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boehner has walked out of talks and we are waiting on the president to make a statement. let's go live right now to nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell who's been covering those talks. kelly, what can you tell us? >> reporter: it's a bulletin reverend al. speaker boehner is breaking off talks with president obama. we learned this a short time ago. they alerted members of the house and reached out to majority leader reid and republican leader mitch mcconnell. speaker boehner saying he will abandon white house negotiations and turn it back to the hill it work this weekend to try to come up with a deal it avert a debt crisis and they need to do that by monday in order to allow all of the process to take place. this is a significant development. sources tell us it was actually the gang of six proposal that helped to derail this and the intervening event was described to us that way. that they had been working on a deal which would have had significant cuts in
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entitlements. significant changes in the tax code which would have raised revenues but dropped rates. no specifics were entirely nailed down. but we're told there were agreements between the leadership here, secretary geithner and the president about some general areas of how they would go forward. we're told in the time line, things really fell apart on tuesday. when the gang of six came forward, that had been considered almost a dead proposal and it was brought back up and because of what the gang of six was talking about, with a different sort of package, that it was more aggressive than what the president had agreed to, according to house leadership aides, that president backed off. so that's how they are describing it. i'm sure the white house will have a different take on this but they are breaking off these talks, al. >> i'm sure that's their side. we don't know the white house side. but clearly this is really raising the stakes with the speaker walking out. we are very anxious, i'm sure, around the country to see what the president is going to say. but when you say the speaker is going back it congress to work
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it out this weekend, what could that possibly mean without some kind of agreement with the white house? >> reporter: well, ultimately the president would have to sign any deal but they want to take the president out of negotiating room. working with harry reid, working with mitch mcconnell to try to come up with something that can pass the house. we are told that from the boehner side, house republicans have to have an increase in the debt ceiling matched with cuts that total that increase amount. kind of back it square one, if you will, al. and there's a lot of talk about a last ditch fall back effort offered by reid and mcconnell. that still isn't ready to go. but that could be a fer mat where you have not the grand barring of an huge cuts and big structural change but something smaller more likely to help the country limp bat of the deadline and then maybe start talks for a
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broerd change for social programs and the tax base. but this is a dire circumstance because there is so much hope about the cooperation between the speaker,er ek cantor and the president, and geithner. a serious impasse. the president will be able to tell us more when he comes to the microphone. i was told the president received a phone call within the last half hour or so and hill leaders just hearing about it today as well. and a lengthy letter going out to house colleagues saying there was never a deal, it was never close and they are breaking this off. >> this could also be speaker boehner feeling the pressure of the tea party. >> certainly. >> -- caucus in the house. and clearly if he is saying that gang of six proposal, we certainly haven't confirmed it, this could be him having to bow to pressure in his own caucus from some of tea party freshmen and the like. >> everybody move could be looked at through a political lens. this could be new pressure to get something done. it is described by republican aides that the gang of six
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confused things when they thought they were on track in a way it get a deal. again, no deal ever close they say. >> kelly, let me interrupt you here. we will go to the president of the united states. >> i wanted to give you an update on the current situation around the debt ceiling. i just got a call about half hour ago, from speaker boehner, who indicated he was going to be walking away from the negotiations we have been engaged in here at the white house for a big deficit reduction and debt reduction package. and i thought it would be useful for me to just give you some insight into where we were and why i think that we should have moved forward with a big deal. essentially what was offered to speaker boehner was over a billion cuts in discretionary spending both domestic and
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defense. we then offered additional $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs. medicare, medicaid, social security. we believe that it was possible to shape those in way that preserved the integrity of the system, made them available for the next generation, and did not affect current beneficiaries in an adverse way. in addition, what we sought was revenues that were actually less than what the gang of six signed off on. so you add bipartisan group of senators, including republicans who are leadership and the senate. calling for what effectively was about $2 trillion above the republican baseline that they've been working off of. what we said was, give us 1.2
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trillion in additional revenues, which could, accomplished without hiking tax rates but could simply be accomplished by eliminating loop holes. eliminating some deductions. and engaging in tax reform process that could have lowered rates generally while broadening the base. so let me reiterate what we were offering. we were offering a deal that called for as much discretionary savings as the gang of six. we were calling for taxes that were less than what the gang of six had proposed. and we were calling for modifications to entitlement programs would have saved just as much over the ten-year window. in other words, this was an extraordinarily fair deal.
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if it was unbalanced, it was unbalanced in the direction of not enough revenue. but in the interest of being serious about deficit reduction, i was willing to take a lot of heat from my party, and i spoke to democratic leaders yesterday. and although they didn't sign off on a plan, they were willing to engage in serious negotiations. despite a lot of heat from a lot of interest groups around the country, in toward make sure that we actually dealt with this problem. it is hard to understand why speaker boehner would walk away from this kind of deal and frankly, if you look at the commentary out there, there are a lot of republicans that are puzzled as to why it couldn't get done. in fact, there are a lot of republican voters out there who
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are puzzled as to why it couldn't get done. because the fact of the matter is the vast majority of the american people believe we should have a balanced approach. now, if you do not have any revenues as the most recent republican plan that's been put forward both in house and senate proposed, if you have no revenues at all, what that means is, more after burden on seniors. more traffic cuts to education. more drastic cuts to research. a bigger burden on services that are going to middle class families all across the country. and it essentially excess nothing of corporate jet owners. it asks nothing of oil and gas companies. it asks nothing from folks like me. who have done extremely well. and can afford to do a little bit more. in other words, if you don't
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have revenues, the entire thing ends up being tilted on the backs of the poor and middle class families. and the majority of americans don't agree on that approach. so here's what we're going to do. we have now run out of time. i've told speaker boehner. i've told nancy pelosi. i've told harry reid. and i've told mitch mcconnell, i want them here at 11:00 tomorrow. we have run out of time and they are going to have to explain to me how it is that we are going to avoid default. and they can come up with any plans that they want and bring them up here and we will work on them. the only bottom line that i have is that we have to extend this debt ceiling through the next election. into 2013.
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and the reason for it, is we have now seen how difficult it is to get any kind of deal done. the economy is already weakened. and the notion that five or six or eight months from now we'll be in a better position to try and solve this problem makes no sense. in addition, if we can't come up with a serious plan for actual deficit and debt reduction and all we're doing is extending the debt ceiling for another six, seven, ail eight months, then the probabilities of downgrading u.s. credit are increased. and that will be an additional cloud over the economy and make it more difficult for us and more difficult tore businesses to create jobs that american people so desperately need. so they will come down here at 11:00 tomorrow. i expect them to have an answer in terms of how they intend to
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get this thing done over the course of the next week. the american people expect action. i continue to believe that a package that is balanced and actually has serious debt and deficit reduction is the right way to go. and the american people, i think, are fed up with political posturing. and an inability for politicians to take responsibility actions as opposed to dodge their responsibilities. all right, with that, i'm going to take some questions. ben? >> thank you mr. president. you said you want the leaders back here at 11 to give an answer. what is your answer? which path do you prefer, given what should happen? and also very quickly, what does it say about your relationship with speaker boehner? >> well, with respect to my relationship with speaker boehner, we've always had a cordial relationship. we had very intense
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negotiations. i will have my team brief you exactly on how these proceeded. up until sometime earlier today when i couldn't get a phone call returned, my expectation was that speaker boehner was going to be willing to go to his caucus, and ask them to do the tough thing, but the right thing. i think it has proven difficult for speaker boehner to do that. i've been left at the altar now a couple of times. and i think that you know, one of the questions that the republicans party is going to have to ask itself, is can they say yes to anything? can they say yes to anything? i mean, keep in mind it's the republican party that has said that the single most important thing facing our country is deficits and debts. we've now put forward a package that would significantly cut deficits and debt.
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it would be the biggest deficit package we have seen in a very long time. and it's accomplished without raising individual tax rates. it's accomplished in a way that's compatible with the no-tax pledge that a bunch of these folks signed on to because we were mindful that they boxed themselves in. and we tried it find ways to generate revenues in a way that did not put them in a bad spot. so the question is, what can you say yes to? now if their only answer is what they've presented, which is a package that would effectively require massive cuts to social security, medicare, domestic spending, with no revenue whatsoever, not asking anything from the wealthiest in this country or corporations that
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have been making record profits, if that's their only answer, then it's going to be pretty difficult for us to figure out where to go. because the fact of the matter is, that's what the american people are looking for. is some compromise. some willingness to put partisanship aside, some willingness to ignore talk radio or ignore activists in our respective bases and do right thing. and to their credit, nancy pelosi, harry reid, the democratic leadership, they did not like the plan we were proposing to boehner. but they were at least willing to engage in a conversation because they understood how important it is for us to actually solve this problem. and so far i have not seen the capacity of the house republicans in particular to make those tough decisions.
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and so then the question becomes, where's the leadership. or alternatively, how serious are you about debt and deficit reduction. or do you simply want to as a campaign for it, going into the next election. now in terms of where we go next, here's the one thing that we've got to do. at minimum, we've got to increase the debt ceiling. at minimum. i think we need to do more than that. but as i've said before, republican leader mcconnell and the senate put forward a plan that said he's going to go ahead and give me the responsibility to raise the debt ceiling. that way, folks in congress can vote against it. but at least it gets done. i'm willing to take the responsibility. that's my job. so if they want to give me the responsibility to do it, i'm happy to do it. but what we're not going to do is to continue to play games and
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string this along for another eight, nine months and then have to go through this whole exercise all over again. that, we're not going to do. >> jessica? >> can you insure the american people they will get their social security checks on august 3rd? and if not, who's to blame? >> well, when it comes to all of the checks, not just social security, veterans, people with disabilities, about 70 million checks are sent out each month. if we default, then we're going to have to make adjustments. and i'm already consulting with secretary geithner in terms of what the consequences would be. we should not even be in that kind of scenario. and if congress, and in particular the house
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republicans, are not willing to make sure that we avoid default, then i think it's fair to say that they would have to take responsibility for whatever problems arise in those payments. let me repeat, i'm not interested in finger-pointing or blame. but i want the fact to speak for themselves. we have put forward a plan that is more generous to republican concerns than a bipartisan plan that was supported by a number of republican senators, including, at least one that is in republican leadership in the senate. now, i'll leave it up to the american people to make a determination as to how fair that is. and if the leadership cannot come to an agreement in terms of how we move forward, then i think they will hold all of us
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accountable. but that shouldn't even be an option. that should not be an option. i'm getting letters from people who write me and say, at the end of every month, i have to skip meals. seen yorp citizens on social security who are just hanging on by a thread. folks who have severe disabilities, who are desperate every single month to try to figure out how they will make ends meet. but it's not just those folks, you've got business contractors. who are providing services to the federal government. they have to wonder if they will get paid and what does that do in terms of their payrolls. you've got just a huge number of people who in one way or another interact with the federal government. and even if you don't even if
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you're an recipient of social security, imagine what that does to the economy when suddenly 70 million checks are put at risk. i mean, if you're a business out there, that is not going to be good for economic growth. and that's the number one concern of the american people pb so we've got to get it done. it is not an option not to do it. >> your degree of confidence? >> i am confident simply because i cannot believe that congress would end up being that irresponsible that they would not send a package that avoids a self-inflicted wound to the economy at a time when things are so difficult. scott? >> mr. president, can you explain why you were offering a dell that was more --
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[ inaudible ] >> what became apparent is that speaker boehner had a group of his caucus that actually think default would be okay. and have said that they would not vote for increasing debt ceiling under any circumstances. and so i understand how tle get themselves stirred up. and the sharp ideological lines that they've drawn. and ultimately my responsibility is to make sure that we avoid extraordinary difficult difficulties to american people and american business. and so, unfortunately, when you're in these negotiations, with you don't get a hundred percent of what you want. you don't even get 60 or 70% of what you want. but i was willing to try to persuade democratic leadership as well as democratic members of
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congress that even a deal that is not as balanced as i think it should be, is better than no deal at all. and i was willing to persuade democrats that getting a handle on debt and deficit reduction is important to democrats just as much as it's important to republicans. and frankly a lot of democrats ever persuaded by that. as i've said in the last conference, if you're a progressive, you should want to get our fiscal house in order. because once we did, it allows a serious conversation about infrastructure, about roads and bridges and airports, like investing more in college education, like making sure we are focused on the kinds of research and technology that's going to help us win the future. it is a lot easier to do that when we've got our fiscal house in order. that's an argument i was willing to go out and make to a lost
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skeptical democrats. as you saw yesterday. but ultimately, that's what we should expect from our leaders. if this was easy, it would have already been done. and i think what a lot of the american people are so disappointed by is this sense that all the talk about responsibility, all the talk about the next generation, all the talk about making sacrifices, that when it comes to actually doing something difficult, folks walk away. and last point i'll make here, i mean, i've got out of my way it say that both parties have to make compromises. i think this whole episode has indicated the degree to which a democratic president has been willing to make difficult
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compromises. so when you guys go out there and write your stories, this is not a situation of this is somehow the usual food fight between democrat and republicans. a lot of democrats stepped up. in ways that were not advantageous politically. so we've shown ourselves willing to do the tough stuff. on an issue that republicans ran on. norah? >> mr. president, there seems to be an extraordinary break down of trust involved here. and i wonder if you could address what we're hearing from republicans, which is that there was framework and a deal that was agreed with your chief of staff, for the treasury second about the certain number of revenues that the republicans agreed to that. after you brought that to the
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party and discussion with the goal line that was new. is there a discussion about the goal line that led to the break down in trust. >> what we will do is a tick tock, and go through the papers and walk you through this process. what this came down to was that there doesn't seem to be a capacity for them to say yes. now what is absolutely true is, we wanted more revenue that not they had initially offered. but as you'll see, the spending cuts that we were prepared to engage in were at least as significant as the spending cuts that you've seen in a whole range of bipartisan proposals and we agreed within 10 million, 20 million, we were within that
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range. that is not why this thing broke down. we were consistent in saying it was important for us to have at least enough revenue. then we could protect current beneficiaries of social security. current beneficiaries of medicare. that we weren't slashing medicaid so much that we would have to throw people off the healthcare wheels. so i want to be clear. i'm not suggesting we had an agreement that was signed sealed and delivered. the parties were still apart as recently as yesterday. but when you look at the over all package twlb is no changing of the goal posts here. there is a consistent on our part sighing we are willing to make the tough cuts and we are willing to take on the heat for those difficult cuts. but that there's got to be some balance in the process. what i've said publicly is the same thing i've said privately.
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and i've done that consistently throughout this process. now with respect to this break down in trust, i think that you know, we have operated above board consistently. there haven't been any surprises. i think the challenge really has to do with the seeming inability, particularly in the house of representatives, to arrive at any kind of position that compromises any of their ideological preferences. none. and you've heard it. i'm not making this up. i think there are a number of members of that caucus that have been very clear about that. [ inaudible ] >> absolutely. but what you saw, and again, you will see this from the description of the deal.
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essentially what they agreed to give, is to get back to a baseline. it starts getting technical. but there were about $800 billion in revenue that were going to be available. and what we said was, when you've got a racho of $4 in cuts for every $1 of revenue, that's pretty hard to stomach. and we think it is important to make sure that whatever additional revenue is in their covers, the amount of money taken out of the entitlement programs, that's only fair. if i'm saying to future recipients of social security or medicare, that you're going to have to make some adjustments, it's important that we're also, willing to make adjustments when it comes to corporate jet owners or oil and gas producers or
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people who are making millions or billions of dollars. wendel? wendel is not here. >> leslie? is leslie here? >> yeah. >> there you go. >> thank you. you said that your bottom line has been a big deal. that's not going to happen. are you going to be able to go back to raising the debt ceiling still? >> well, i think i've been consistently saying here in this press room and everywhere that it is very important for us to raise the debt ceiling. we don't have an option on that. so if that's the best that congress can do, then i will sign an ex techk debt ceiling that takes us through 2013. i don't think that's enough. i think we should do more. that's the bare minimum. that's the floor of what the
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american people expect us to do. so i would like to see us do more. when i meet with leadership tomorrow, i will say, let's do more. but if they tell me that's the best they can do, then i will sign an extension that goes to 2013 and i will make the case to the american people that we've got to continue going out there and solving this problem. it's the right thing to do and it's time to do it. we can't keep on putting it off. >> you suggested that speaker boehner didn't return phone calls this afternoon. >> you know, i'm less concerned about me having to wait for my phone call return than i am -- the message i received when i actually got the phone call. i'm going make this the last question. go ahead. >> the markets are closed right now. what assurances are you going to make an wall street. are you making assurances monday
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so when news comes we don't see -- >> i think it is important that the latership will be opening on monday and we get better have answers during the course of the next several days. >> what can you say to people who are watching and working on wall street? do they find this a bit alarming, perhaps? >> well, i think what you should say -- well, here's what i would say. i remain confident that we will get an ex techkts detension of limit and we will not fault. i am less confident at this point that people are willing to step up to the plate and actually deal with the underlying problem of debt and dif sits. that requires tough choices. that's what we were sent here to do. i mean, the debt ceiling, that's a formallity. historically, this sent even been an issue.
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it's a routine vote that congress does peer odd ukly. it was raised 18 types when ronald reagan was. ronald reagan said it would be hugely damaging to the prestige of the united states. and we shouldn't even consider it. so that's the easy part. we should have done that six months ago. the hard part is actually dealing with the underlying debt and deficits. and doing it in way that's fair. that's all the american people are looking for. some fairness. i can't tell you how many letters and e-mails i get including from republican voters, who say, look, we know that neither party is blameless when it comes to how this debt and deficit develops. there's been a lot of blame to spread around. but we sure hope you don't just balance the budget on the backs of seniors.
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we sure hope we're not slashing our amendment to make sure kids can go to college. we sure hope we're not suddenly throwing a bunch of poor kids off the med kay cade role so they can get basic preventative services that keep them out of emergency room. that's all they're looking for is some fairness. now what you willy i suspected, now if the senate is prepared to pass the cap cut and balance bill that republican plan, then somehow we can solve this problem. that's serious debt reduction. it turns out that the plan that speaker boehner and i was talking about was comparable in terms of deficit reduction. the different is that we didn't put all of the burden on the people least able to protect
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themselves, who don't have lobby ists in this town, who don't have lawyers working on the tax coat form. ordinary folks who are struggling. everyday. and they know they're getting a raw deal. and they're mad at everybody about it. they are mad at democrats and republicaned because they know somehow no matter how hard they work. they don't seem to be able to keep up. and what they're looking for is somebody who is willing to look out for them. that's all they're looking for. and for us not to keep those folks in mind every single day, when we're up here, for us to be more worried about what some thunder says or some talk radio show host says or what some columnist says. or what pledge we signed back when we were trying to run or
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worrying about having a primary fight. for us to be thinking in those terms, instead of thinking about those folks, is inexcusable. the american people are just desperate for folks who are willing to put aside politics just for a minute and try to get some stuff done. so when norah asked or somebody else asked pb why was i willing to go along with the deal that wasn't apt mol from my perspective is even though if i didn't think the deal was perfect, at least it would show that this place is serious. we are willing to take on responsibilities even when it's tough. that we are willing to step up even when the folks who helped get us elected may disagree. for and you know, at some point,
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i think if you want to be a leader, then you got to lead. thank you very much. that was an extraordinary, extraordinary statement from the president. in the press room. white house. i must say that i've not heard president obama speak like that in some time. with real passion and candor, saying things if, like if you're twoing to lead, lead. that we've got to do tough things. that we've got to ignore the columnists and talk show hosts and activists and really challenging both the republicans and the democrats. it was a very poignant and passionate and no-holds barred speech and stalt from the president.
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and in light of speaker boehner saying he walked out of negotiationes from the white house. the president now summoned mr. banor and the republican and democratic leadership to the white house tomorrow morning at 11. and he says he will do whatever it is that he must do to save the country from going in default. joining me now to analyze what we've just seen and where the debt talks go from here, we have congressman of pennsylvania, msnbc political analyst pat buchanan. and bill press. congressman, let me start with you. what's your call on this? this is an extraordinary evening. >> it is and i think that you saw the president in a very effective way lay out what i had put on the table. so we know, we don't have to guess about it any more. we know exactly what was on the table in terms of spending cuts and revenue raising.
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and it seems obvious that speaker notwithstanding his best efforts, can't convince house republicans that for the sake of saving the country in our economy, this is the greatest nation in the world, the wealthiest station in the world, the notion that we are the world's dead beats should be beyond any of us. >> he actually quoted ronald reagan saying that a default would be below the dignity of the country. pat buchanan, you heard the president. it was an extraordinary statement. but he also laid out specifics of what was on the table. he said that the offer had been 1.2 trillion and discretionary funds, 650 billion. in entitlements. and they were working it in a way he felt was more than on his side of the column. it was absolutely tilted toward the republican side.
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but he said that he doesn't see that they have the capacity to say yes. how do you respond to that, pat? >> first i thought the president was extraordinarily effective. secondly, reverend sharpton, yesterday many conservatives felt we were indeed close to a deal. and you had a lot of statements out of there that you would get an increase in the debt ceiling pb dramatic spending cuts. then reform the tax code, drop rates and give up all these exemptions, deductions and the things the president doesn't like. all of a sudden, mr. boehner, walked out. i think norah o'donnell's question is critical here. she said, republicans are saying the president with, after he met can democrats last night who raised the devil by b what he was doing, that president walked the cat back. that he moved the goeld
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goalpost. i think what we need to hear is from mr. boehner as it what happened yesterday when a lot of us, including me were very optimistic. we were close to a big deal and good deal. what happened to cause mr. baner to walk out? the president said it was republicans in the house. let's hear from from mr. boehner. >> let me say this. bill is coming offer the president under response to that said that they did not move the goalpost. in fact he said he had been left standing at the altar too many times here. that he was the one waiting to make the marriage. and that they just didn't show up. how does that in any way act as though something overnight changed. first of all, let me just say, i'm at the white house everyday. right? i see the president very off then. i have never seen him as angry as he was tonight. as blunt as he was tonight. >> aagree. >> i think we know what happened. look, the president made it very
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clear. the president tent can't take this for an answer and very clear that john boehner is not in charge or is not willing to exercise leadership. al, you said it right, when the president left, that's what we're going to remember from this news conference. if you want to be a leader, you've got to lead. stand up to members of your own party. john boehner for the second time has shown he is not willing to do that. in response to pat's question we know what happened. eric cantor told john boehner you don't have anier with mission to do this. and john boehner walked away again. they are not willing to take yes for an answer. so we will get the mitch mcconnell, harry reid plan. they will pass the buck to the president even he will sign it. >> let me say this. >> yes kwb go ahead. >> greg back there would have been a speaker working out with a majority leader. when they get a deal presented
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to the president for his signature. if boehner is getting a a better deal than reid, we will all be going to walt disney. if he has to ge negotiate a bill with the senate democrats, it won't be as tilted towards the republicans as the proposal that president laid out. so boehner had the best deal he could get. >> everyone stand by -- >> i will let you do that but joining me now from the white house, is nby news correspondent christian walker. is there anything can you tell us that has developed since the president's very extraordinary statement? >> i would just add reverend sharpton that he did seem incredibly frustratesed. in terms of these negotiations. as you heard he called the leaders of both parties back here at 11 a.m. tomorrow.
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he said we've got to get going on this. one of the phrases that really stood out from that president conference was he said, time has run out. it is time to get something done. as you know the president had been washing for this grand bargain. he wanted about $4 thrillon in deficit deduction over the decade. it looks that point that won't happen the. the president saying what i would like to see now is the debt ceiling raised through 2013. that's why he believe this focus should be. one other thing that is interesting is that he made the point that called speaker boehner, didn't get a call until he heard from him to say this deal was going to in fact fall apart. we did get reaction from boehner's office saying a deal was never reached and never really close. again there is a lot of back and forge on both sides one of the
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major stick points as you know. you heard the president just say that we had identified about 1.2 trillion in savings through changes to the tax code. apparently the republicans weren't buying that. all along they said they would not get behind anything that resum bl a tachbl hike tp it seems molt iply that would have been an ending point. >> you hear the pred say clearly that he was offering $1.2 trillion -- he was putting in entitlements and discretionary funds on the table. but he was not willing to do it all on the backs of one side. and i think in the most aggressive language i've heard the president talking about, he talked about the airplanes and those that have to choose between their meals at the end of the month. he talked about lettuce.
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i mean, how do you think the republicans can respond to the american people hearing the president lay it out like that? pat? >> very six pli. what mr. boehner ought to do is go back it his caucus and say the deal wasn't as close as the president ijdcated. there were good feature to it and the big deal is dead. now we're not going to let our country go into default and we will pass a six-month increase in the debt limit worth about 500 billion in cuts that have been agreed to by biden and others. and puss a six-month increase in the debt limit. and send it over to the senate and to the president. and let them decide the democratic senate, secretary president, whether they wish to put this government in default or who r whether they wish to put this go country into a position where half of it has to be shut down.
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put the full responsibility fon the side of the president and give him cuts and an increase in the debt limit. >> lit me interrepublican here. that would be the worst thing that kwn gres request k do. you know where that pults us, lights into the middle of the 2012 campaign kwh is exactly what these republicans want. the only reason theyling it to the fiscal conservatives is they are playing politics. >> congressman, you are a member of congress, congressman tet, how do they do that when the president laid out such a case that even according to polls republican voters have said we want to see some shared sacrifice here? >> what will shap they did it today. they did that announcement this week. senate voted it down. this is what is actually going to happen. it is in the seenus of the design of our government. you will get a bipartisan bill out of 9 senate.
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the president will not before, and you will see a split screen up and you will see pensions and investments going down on wall street next week and the house, tea party guys are going to end up having to vote for what comes out in a bipartisan way. pat buchanan is talking about plane floiing with one pinning. the house can do whatever it wants. the republicans can do what they want thp they don't run the country. this is bipartisan solution. the design of our government allows the senate to be more reason they run for longer term. represent broader constituents and they will dot job that speaker and house majority didn't didn't seem to have the moral compass to seem to accomplish. >> what will happen is an agreement or agreement. barack obama the shut down the government and take all of the
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consequences. i don't believe it. i think if we call the president's bluff, send him something over this weekend and he -- >> maybe pat, the president is -- maybe the president called your bluff fz. >> exactly. >> i love this time, pat. >> yeah, pat's got it backwards as usual. he called the republicans bluff. you know, the president has shown -- wait a minute, it's my turn now. i believe that as a democrat what president was willing to do was a a bad deal for the democrats. it cut social security. cut medicare. there were no tax revenues right away until 2013. i didn't like that deal. but the fact the president showed he was to go that last mile to get an agreement. let me ask you at the white house, do you think the president is prepared to shut the government down if he has to. >> well his tone this evening
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was one of trying to insure the american people that that isn't going to happen. that's one of the critical questions here. one of the reporters brought up the point that markets are watching this so closely. so even when you're talking about the how the markets are respond weg saw the market go up. earlier this week. when it looked like the possibility for deal. so you can i math inwhat could happen on monday. so president obama made it very clear -- >> i think the president clearly said that they need to send a signal to wall street over the weekend. >> that's right. >> that's exactly right. he said he has it send a signal to wall street. >> to congressman will say something. >> forget what people are saying, watch what they're doing. the senate is in session and they are going to work a deal. the bipartisan group in the senate. you know, senator, the senators
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who come out republicans for the deal, i saw lamar alexander come out for the gang of six. you saw the president the other night say the game of six deal -- >> so you predict the senate will make a deal. >> you get a 70-vote package. it will be as it was in healthcare. when this is what we can get the votes for, that was it in terms of affordable healthcare. that was going to be the deal. >> pat has the republicans put them self in a very walkard position because the tea party has taken leadership there and really hijacked the party where boehner show the strong leadership the president so clearly challenged him to show tonight. >> reverend you, you are so wrong on this. the reason john boehner is sitting alone with the president of the united states is because behind him are the tough folks
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and principled folks of the tea party who aren't taking any new taxes. that's why barack obama has been making one concession after another after another that he admitted. with regard to congressman fettah, i believe they will mover swiftly. they simply raised the d.a. debt ceiling. that will calm the markets unless the president vetoes. >> let me just say this, could congressman is coming in. what was concessions now, that it is off the table. it becomes now points to the american people that president clearly said tonight, i was willing to go all the way. i was willing to take flak from my own party. we have reports from president fine stain saying she was free last night. but they could meet me even less
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than half way. don't you guys lose in the end when the american people -- >> you make a very good point, reverend sharpton. >> pat? >> that's why according to norah o'donnell, said after the president got the beating, he began it move the goalpost. >> oh, pat they've been saying that for six months. >> reverend -- >> wait, wait, wait. >> congressman -- i think pat is trying to make up i know that mr. boehner is speaking at 10:15. >> pat knows that as we saw president and a party, willing to rise above politics for our nation, you saw one and another party that shirk strength from
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that party. >> that's unfair. >> reverend, let me get in here if i can, please. couple of quick points. pat, every time we are on this show he says the president is talking about raising taxes. he is not talking about raising taxes. >> i think he made that clear. >> i would like to deal with facts. >> exactly, okay. >> second thing, there is another fact that nobody is talking about. because the tea partiers will never vote for anything, this plan cannot pass the house without democratic votes. i good got to tell you, i talked to democrats today in the house who will not vote now to cut social security and medicare. so i think the president's got to be careful and the congressman -- >> you make a point bill. if the democrats won't vote for cuts, you got to get house republicans to do it. they're not going to take any new taxes 0r revenue enhancements as you call them. and you can get that across. >> pat, the house republicans are losers. they don't vote for anything. forget those guys.
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>> will the president's statement and reaction that it will cause to the american peopling with will it have any affect on them tonight in the house? >> i think, listening to the president, he made a powerful, emotional case that he has walked a long way. i don't deny that. i think he is sincere. but is t sun fair when we haven't heard the argument of the republicans and there is something going 07b. and secondly, republicanes have strong position and should stand by their guns. >> pat, you were a speech writer in the white house. you've been someone that's been good with the pen even though i probably not agreed with what you have written. what could you possibly say to mr. boehner if you could right now? he's going to speak at 7:15, what can he say now so he doesn't look like he is trying to be defensive, what can he say
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to match the president in rising above politics and say to the american people, look what we are sharing that we care. >> i would say, i'm not as eloquent as the president and i share the concern about what will happen if we default. and we're not going to allow that. but we're also not going to allow a tax increase on an economy that's flat on its back. so we will pass tomorrow. well pass tomorrow and increase increase on the debt ceiling. cuts to which democrats in the house, vice president biden and republicans have agreed we will do that six months. >> why did you walk away -- >> mr. boehner -- >> they will ask, why did he walk away if really had the same concerns for the american people? >> that's why i've asked you reverend sharpton, why don't you listen to the man speak. and before you can -- >> because, look --
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>> reverend sharpton, can i just jump under for aekd? >> gentlemen and lady, just a second. let me bring in one more voice. a serious xm radio host. as you come in, i think i heard kirstin walk ir, you want to say something at the white house? >> right. just in terms of the pressure at the white house speaker boehner has been getting, we have been trying to gauge this all week long. he is, according to our reporting, getting quite a bit of pressure. especially from some of the tea party appreciatemen who have come in and they are just adamant they won't support anything that looks like a plan that would increase taxes. infact, earlier this week a whole group of them gathered outside the white house. they don't even believe timothy geithner's assertion that we
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will difficult so they they they are being lied to so they are dealing with a lot of pressure from freshman republicanes who are quite strong in numbers. >> joe madison, joe, would you give us your assessment? >> well, she's absolutely right in talking to charlie rang el today, we talked about the democrats having the same problem with the bull weave els and. it is a matter of arithmetic, leadership. because of that, boehner is showing very poor leadership. look, pat's a good friend. six months won't fly because he knows august is out. because you're vacationing. thanksgiving holiday, christmas, you'll be lucky to get any time-out of those six months. there are more unemployed people bb underemployed people, people watching their neighbor's homes be forclose end their are
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wealthy people and argument still flies. if they are job creators they don't want to sacrifice be a increase in taxes, hey, where are the jobs? >> the president said tonight, if you can't do this with this democratic president, haven't you really blown an opportunity here? here is a democratic president willing to do this even people like brooks was saying, do this now and i think you have seen a president say i've gone as far as i can go. now you will walk out and leave me standing at at altar again, we have got to just stop it. the time has run out. how do you respond to that that. >> let me respond to joe madison too for heaven sakes. >> joe says we can't do it in six months because three months are wastes on the holidays.
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spt isn't six months better than one week if we are facing default? >> pat, listen to moody's. listen to sandard and poor's. the market will not take six months. they need more confidence than that. give it up. >> let the congressman have the last word. >> look, the republicans are under an illusion if they with one form of government. let bane irwork out whatever he can work out with harry reid. he is going to end up with a deal that none of the republicans can vote for in the house. he should proceed with the agreement, with the president. >> if you do that congressman, you'll default if you do that. >> we're not afraid of any boogie man, pat. >> what happens at the white house tomorrow at 11:00, i hope the adults

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